<deraadt> I have disabled art's account
<jason> Oh yes, good point =) (was just about to start a build too =)
<deraadt> I am sick and tired of him not responding to significant mail
<deraadt> I send him
<deraadt> $12,000 US worth of mail.
<jason> Assuming it builds, can I commit the wsfb_driver patch I sent
<jason> you last week?
<matthieu> Yes
<deraadt> For the record, Art was paid $12,000 US for the last 3 months
<deraadt> of hacking
<grumpy> the one that recognizes the new display types?
<deraadt> He did basically zero.
<deraadt> And he refuses to talk to me about this
<jason> grumpy, yes.
<grumpy> jason, then you've got my ok too if it includes cg12.
<deraadt> Scond issue, that $12,000 has resulted in Austin not being
<deraadt> able to pay Ty or for our incoming 3.3 CDs
<deraadt> Not being able to pay an artist is a cardinal sin.
<deraadt> Not responding to questions when the person who pays you asks,
<deraadt> is another.
<deraadt> I have held off airing this for weeks now. 
<grumpy> well, airing this does not help either...
<deraadt> Thanks for your opinion.
<grumpy> and same results with page zeroing disabled, so this is indeed
<grumpy> worse than the older diffs.
<deraadt> the diff is totally busted, that much is clear.
<grumpy> time to break it in chunks...
<jason> Oh no! a c++ bug in gcc on sparc64, surely not! (reported on
<jason> bugs@ =)
<mickey> those are fun!
<jason> There are certainly no bugs in the ecgs 2.95.3 c++ on
<jason> sparc64... his hardware must be busted ;)
<mickey> ecc errors strike again!
<deraadt> I am talking about pmap.
<deraadt> Who approved that bpf patch?
<deraadt> I do not see any approvals on it.
<deraadt> Shall I back it out?
<grumpy> I suppose this was the same diff as submitted in the pr.
<deraadt> so?
<grumpy> so at least it has been seen. as for approvals, I am not aware
<grumpy> of any. but I trust art on this since he understands kqueue.
<deraadt> i386 W^X is weeks away it looks like
<deraadt> Seeing as the new system call has not even been documented
<deraadt> I cannot find a man page for it anywhere
<deraadt> It will not go in without peer review.
<deraadt> Yet, apparently, that is what Art thinks will happen
<grumpy> fine, then I have just looked at this diff and the
<grumpy> corresponding code, and with my limited knowledge of that area
<grumpy> "it looks safe to me". that's one review.
<deraadt> it did not happen before the commit.
<deraadt> you think it is ok that it was not looked at by someone else
<deraadt> before commit?
<deraadt> we have man page commits being looked at by multiple people
<deraadt> but this can skip that, right?
<deraadt> Do I understand you correctly, Miod?
<grumpy> I never said so. My opinion here is that I trust art on this
<grumpy> patch going in without a review.
<deraadt> So he does not need to get other people to look at it?
<grumpy> peer review is a plus, and I've never said the contrary.
<grumpy> especially for large diffs.
<deraadt> Miod, you are wrong.
<deraadt> Miod, you are WRONG
<deraadt> NOONE is exempt from talking to other people about diffs
<deraadt> and most ESPECIALLY not a person who only pops by for 1 line
<deraadt> words every 4 days
<deraadt> You, Miod, are utterly WRONG.
<deraadt> Peer review applies to everyone, and you are a fucking idiot
<deraadt> if you think that the political situation here exempts Art.
<grumpy> so be it. I can live with this. won't be the last time i am
<grumpy> being wrong.
<espie> no, miod, you're not wrong, you, Miod, are utterly WRONG.
<grumpy> ah, explains a lot, then.
<tedu> www people around? sfobug meeting date is wrong on
<tedu> groups.html.  should i fix it?
<deraadt> feel free
<grumpy> no, contact ian@
<grumpy> or fix groups.dat and regen
<grumpy> but not groups.html directly.
<deraadt> yeah, contact ian, and you'll get a response in a week...
<grumpy> I sense some sarcasm here
<tedu> k, i think they've bugged him before.  i'll ask again
<espie> better than beck's usual response time, no ?
<tedu> where does groups.dat live?
<grumpy> www, same dir
<grumpy> read the beginning of groups.html or the Makefile in this dir
<todd> grumpy: no sarcasm, just reality. ian is not fast.
<espie> rotfl, who is this Rich Cannings guy ?
<deraadt> a guy in calgary who is trying to help with ports, and who you
<deraadt> are making very angry
<deraadt> a guy who buys peter and me beer
<deraadt> thanks marc
<espie> hello ???
<espie> guy drops in, tries mozilla, compiles it to exactly the point
<espie> where we've been, and tells us so, more or less.
<espie> and I tell him he should check the archives, as we recommend,
<deraadt> i don't care.
<espie> and that makes him angry ? wow, cool.
<pval> yes i explained to him that last week.  now he knows
<espie> so, if you don't care, don't say anythin.
<pval> now he wants to make his port work so he can debug it from
<pval> there
<grumpy> french rudeness extraordinaire!
<pval> i think the port is irrelevant to whether mozilla works or
<pval> not. he wants to learn how to make ports
<espie> peter, why didn't you point him to other resources ?
<millert> Oh god, then he should definately not start with mozilla
<pval> i have pointed him to many things but he is a bit clueless as
<pval> you said
<espie> like existing static ports, or *other software* he could port.
<pval> he has ported other software already. and trying more complex
<pval> things.
<espie> oh ?
<pval> i personally talk to him all the time. perhaps i should tell
<pval> him to not use the mailing list?
<pval> see maxima, already in ports
<espie> ah, so he did maxima, good point.
<espie> well, point him to the archives, at least.
<pval> so what i'm saying is he's a cool and capable guy, just needs
<pval> some guidance as usual
<pval> the archives won't really answer his questions.  reading
<pval> bsd.port.mk will (those in the last mail)
<espie> in fact, reading gnu.port.mk will.
<pval> but i told him he'll get burned by posting mozilla stuff on
<pval> the lists all the time, we're all frustrated with it
<espie> but his last email is a mess of a mix of questions.
<pval> true, he's confused :)
<espie> he'd rather drop in on porters with such questions.
<espie> and well, frankly, I don't expect he's solve mozilla...
<deraadt> right, he should not ask.  but anyways, with people like you
<deraadt> around, he will soon stop.
<espie> oh sure, like you're treating people any better usually.
<deraadt> when they ask for real information, i am a nice person
<deraadt> when they want to attack a real problem, i am a nice person
<deraadt> he really does want to take a shot at it
<deraadt> unlike you, who gave up a year ago...
<espie> not true.
<espie> and you know it.
<espie> and I can prove it.
<deraadt> look, i don't care.
<espie> so, don't say a fucking thing, then.
<deraadt> i do, however, care if rich wants to take a shot at this
<deraadt> and i do care if you are actively trying to discourage him
<espie> nice slant, I did not.
<deraadt> you did, and then you laughed about it here
<espie> I asked who he was.
<deraadt> <espie> rotfl, who is this Rich Cannings guy ?
<deraadt> you laughed.
<espie> saw his last email ?
<espie> he said:`well I'm going to figure it out.'
<espie> not `I'm going to try to figure it out'
<espie> good luck to him.
<deraadt> for the record, he is a quantum cryptography master's student
<deraadt> who keeps going on contracts with US goverment and companies
<pval> he's being optimistic, that's at least how i read it....
<pval> nothing more
<espie> and that's how I read it too.,
<pval> so what's wrong with that?
<espie> nothing wrong. I'm not laughing evilly.
<espie> Theo is seeing too much into this.
<espie> Theo, if you continue, I'm going to forward this to hackers@.
<deraadt> Feel free to forward it to hackers.
<deraadt> And I'll reply to him, and include this whole icb discussion.
<espie> go ahead, include it.
[=Pass=] hacklog has passed moderation to deraadt
<deraadt> And now I say bye to you
[=Boot=] espie was booted.
[=Depart=] espie (espie@[62.212.102.210]) just left
<millert> I wish you guys could be more courteous to each other
<deraadt> I wish he would start by being nice to an outsider who is
<deraadt> trying to help.
<millert> Well yeah
[=Sign-off=] matthieu (matthieu@[80.11.125.244]) has signed off.
<deraadt> There's a very large step between being an asshole towards a
<deraadt> user, and being an asshole towards a submitter/developer.  The
<deraadt> latter is clearly not acceptable
[=Sign-on=] matthieu (matthieu@[80.11.125.244]) entered group
<matthieu> Zzz
<deraadt> miod your account is off now too
<deraadt> don't you think before you speak?
[=Sign-off=] marc (marc@localhost) has signed off.
<deraadt> espie's account has not been disabled
<deraadt> It has been removed.
<deraadt> I am contemplating miod's account at the moment
<deraadt> I am thinking he might be happier in NetBSD
<deraadt> It seems he's learned all the buttons for all the people here
<deraadt> So he can make them angry with just 15 words
<deraadt> anytime he wants to
<deraadt> Perhaps he needs a new group of people who's buttons he can
<deraadt> learn, too
<deraadt> I will not put up with people being so mean to me.
<deraadt> You guys really don't want me doing OpenBSD anymore, right?
<deraadt> All you silent people, would be happy if I just quit, right?
<deraadt> Shall I delete /cvs right now?
<toby> I would prefer you kept going.  But I'm in no position to say
<toby> anything.
<margarida> you know that's not true, stop saying that
<deraadt> Why do I have to put up with so much meanness from some
<deraadt> developers who think they can get away with saying anything
<deraadt> they want?
<deraadt> Why am I required to just put up with ti?
<margarida> because people have their good and bad moods as you do, but
<margarida> overall they love the project as you do
<deraadt> Art is not here for 3 months
<deraadt> and does an un-approved diff
<deraadt> I complain
<deraadt> and Miod says *I AM THE ONE DOING THINGS WRONG*
<deraadt> and NOONE OBJECTS AGAINST THE BULLSHIT HE IS SPREADING
<deraadt> And then it just ramps up and ramps up because of HIM
<deraadt> for someone who cares about the project, he sure could have
<deraadt> fooled me!
[=Sign-off=] mickey (mickey@cvs.openbsd.org) has signed off.
Lost connection with the server. Quitting...